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Old 12-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #1
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Default Thumbs?

Any experienced 3d pilots here that use thumbs on the sticks? This is how I learned since picking up my first heli (MCP X), but since I have moved to more powerful birds like the 130x and especially the 450x I have found my collective inputs to be very uncontrolled which I"m sure will put one of these into the ground eventually. I've been practing for a good week on the sim to convert to holding the sticks and without a doubt I have much better control all around, and I think for me it was a step in the right direction. Not an easy transition for sure, but I think it is worth the effort.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #2
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not sure im experieced enough, but its thumbs here. much better control.

with thumbs you can grip the tx properly, and its more natural and ergonomic with thumbs pivoting the sticks freely from the top. with pinching you just cant get that fast fluid motion in all directions. well you can, obviously, as some pros use it, but its not for me.

each to their own.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:24 AM   #3
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Whatever your use to now, stick to that
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #4
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Experiment. Don't take what anybody says into account, doesn't matter what who flies with. I personally fly planks with thumbs, and helis pinching. I feel totally comfortable holding the TX both ways, however I don't feel comfortable controlling either the other way around. I don't have the precision required for helis with thumbs, and I don't have the reaction time and throw rates required for planks with pinching.
Just how I look at it. Play around with both, and you will naturally settle on a grip. That's the best for you.

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Old 12-21-2012, 02:05 AM   #5
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Not directly relevat to you, but here it is for some kindo f reference: I started flying heli in mode 1. Not the best decision (and definitively not made based on appropriate info). Anyway, each time I thought going mode 2 I already knew enough that I felt I would push my skills way back and I just stuck with mode 1.

Second thing is that I started flying thumbs. Now, I still want to learn to fly mode 2 and I discovered that I can fool the brain somehow if I go and fly pinch method in mode 2 and thumbs in mode 1 I don't get confused a lot. So far, in mode 2, I can hover tail in and occasionally do a shaky circuit - but it is much easier if my brain things those are two completely different thing (thumbs vs pinch). Since then I do not try flying pinch except when playing around with FP or crashable heli like mCP-X (or sim) on mode 2...
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #6
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Supposedly mode 1 gives you much more precise control. I have no idea, here in the US mode 1 in pretty unheard of, but now that I know about it, I understand why it would be more effective. However, with mode 2 being everywhere here, it's a pretty big mindf***
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:09 AM   #7
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Nope. Mode one is, a kind of, atavism - reminder of 3 channel radios for plankers. Then they added 4th channel as well and we (I ) ended up with weird configuration. Then some smart people fixed it (for helis?) and called it mode 2...Eh.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:21 PM   #8
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Sorry. I deleted because I re-read starter.
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Last edited by Einzelganger; 12-30-2012 at 06:24 PM.. Reason: I'm playing with aerobatics. Not 3D.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:58 AM   #9
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I use thumbs exclusively, but I will say that you need good sticks with sharp teeth to hold your thumbs on it well. The default sticks on a DX7s or DX8 are pretty terrible for thumb flying (IMHO). At least for me, it wasn't until I got better sticks (for $10) that gripped my thumbs better and let me bang on them that I got better. I wish I would have figured it out earlier on because it would of saved me some crashes from my thumbs slipping off when sweaty.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:42 AM   #10
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pinch
i thumb and hate it
i get more control from pinching (btw i like to pitch pump for hours)
i can do it for an entire flying session
whats wrong with me?
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #11
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This is no ad

but smack talk rc has a video totally covering this subject
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash_Expert View Post
pinch
i thumb and hate it
i get more control from pinching (btw i like to pitch pump for hours)
i can do it for an entire flying session
whats wrong with me?
Almost every person I've ever known, plane or heli, if they allowed themselves to use thumb and finger, has been pleased they forced themselves to do it - even those that swore they'd NEVER fly finger/thumb. I thumbed for 15 years, then took 6 months off flying, for the purpose of using finger/thumb, when I came back. In 2 months, I was 5 times a better flyer, than thumbs only! Never looked back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolus1 View Post
Whatever your use to now, stick to that
I tend to disagree. You mention you are comfortable, and like the finger/thumb - it's easy to change, when you WANT to change, than down the road.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #13
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why do some pros use thumbs then and fly just as well as those that use the pinch method. in theory at least the thumb has advantage in being ergonomically superior as it can swivel the stick quickly and freely in all directions equally easily. pinching might be more secure in some ways, but can never give such a natural movement.. and you've got the grip on the tx which is a huge advantage, allowing very controlled movements and offsetting some of the pinch methods theoretical advantage in that respect. both methods have advantages and disadvantages of course - i dont think you can say either is best.

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Almost every person I've ever known, plane or heli, if they allowed themselves to use thumb and finger, has been pleased they forced themselves to do it
you could probably find a group that went the reverse way. dont forget they were probably convinced there was an advantage before they started, or they wouldnt have bothered learning it. they probably wernt happy with the thumb method for some reason (never had a problem myself). also people have a strong tendency to defend decisions they have committed to, even if they are objectively dubious, esp if the have spent lots of time getting good at something. i know i am . but dont forget there are lots of people who are entirely happy with the thumb method or have tried pinching and found it very awkward - not because they havnt stuck with it, but because for them, it IS awkward. it could be some people have the wrong shaped/sized hands or insufficient coordination to use thumbs so prefer pinching - and vice versa. everyones different. personally for me, pinching is a non starter and id never use it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmc76 View Post
Any experienced 3d pilots here that use thumbs on the sticks? This is how I learned since picking up my first heli (MCP X), but since I have moved to more powerful birds like the 130x and especially the 450x I have found my collective inputs to be very uncontrolled which I"m sure will put one of these into the ground eventually. I've been practing for a good week on the sim to convert to holding the sticks and without a doubt I have much better control all around, and I think for me it was a step in the right direction. Not an easy transition for sure, but I think it is worth the effort.
This is the original poster's remarks. He wasn't looking for which is better, just affirmation that you could change successfully. And I responded in kind - it's not real easy, to break habits, but it can be done, and I offered one way of doing it.

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Originally Posted by neverland View Post
why do some pros use thumbs then and fly just as well as those that use the pinch method. in theory at least the thumb has advantage in being ergonomically superior as it can swivel the stick quickly and freely in all directions equally easily. pinching might be more secure in some ways, but can never give such a natural movement.. and you've got the grip on the tx which is a huge advantage, allowing very controlled movements and offsetting some of the pinch methods theoretical advantage in that respect. both methods have advantages and disadvantages of course - i dont think you can say either is best.
If just FEELS unnatural, until you have accomplished it. Then it feels QUITE natural, thank you - in MY case, MUCH more natural, because instead of "banging" the sticks around, I am in control of every nanometer of movement. MUCH more precise. And I CAN say,, what I feel is best, in my opinion...and ANYTHING you learn, is unnatural at first, until your muscles and brain are trained. Just as flying a helicopter is unnatural, otherwise, when you first start out, you wouldn't turn the controls the wrong direction, when nose in. But, your muscles and brain learned to do it, as a 2nd nature.

I do notice that we don't drive our cars, with just our thumbs on the steering wheel, nor do we relegate our thumbs to the responsibility of picking our noses...

Quote:
Originally Posted by neverland View Post
you could probably find a group that went the reverse way. dont forget they were probably convinced there was an advantage before they started, or they wouldnt have bothered learning it. they probably wernt happy with the thumb method for some reason (never had a problem myself).
Perhaps. But in 25 years, and hundreds of flyers, I have only met one or two, that gave flying with "pinch" method, and honest effort, that ever went back. Sure, there are some pros, that fly extremely well with thumbs. But then, they could fly circles around me, and most, with their feet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by neverland View Post
also people have a strong tendency to defend decisions they have committed to, even if they are objectively dubious, esp if the have spent lots of time getting good at something. i know i am .
as evidenced...however, if I was of that bent, I wouldn't have any ex-wives...

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Originally Posted by neverland View Post
but dont forget there are lots of people who are entirely happy with the thumb method or have tried pinching and found it very awkward - not because they havnt stuck with it, but because for them, it IS awkward. it could be some people have the wrong shaped/sized hands or insufficient coordination to use thumbs so prefer pinching - and vice versa. everyones different. personally for me, pinching is a non starter and id never use it.
Again, the thread wasn't started asking for a stand on good/bad or thumb/pinch. It was asking about changing to pinch. The OP came right out and said he had better control, with the pinch. I just gave him an avenue for change, and a few words of encouragement. And also shared with him my feelings, and success, with changing to the pinch method. I would have never learned to fly helicopter with thumbs. Period. And I knew that. Then again, after learning pinch, I grew attached to a tray, and unless it's just for a few moments, never fly without one. I also don't carry a piano around, when I play it, either...

To each their own - again, to the original poster, I have found that if you think you can become a better flyer, by giving yourself the opportunity to learn the pinch method, I encourage you to give it a serious try. Many have, and many are very happy with it.

Again, YMMV

R
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
bmc76

Any experienced 3d pilots here that use thumbs on the sticks? This is how I learned since picking up my first heli (MCP X), but since I have moved to more powerful birds like the 130x and especially the 450x I have found my collective inputs to be very uncontrolled which I"m sure will put one of these into the ground eventually. I've been practing for a good week on the sim to convert to holding the sticks and without a doubt I have much better control all around, and I think for me it was a step in the right direction. Not an easy transition for sure, but I think it is worth the effort.
I am not a vastly experience pilot, however I changed from thumbs to pinch. When I did it felt like the expo on the controls had to be cut in half.

It will not stop dumb mistakes, but at least they will be what you told it to do.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:27 AM   #16
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This is the original poster's remarks. He wasn't looking for which is better, just affirmation that you could change successfully. And I responded in kind - it's not real easy, to break habits, but it can be done, and I offered one way of doing it.
actually, you made it pretty clear before my comment which one you think is better; and that it was merely a matter of learning the 'superior' method. if you'd have left it at saying it was POSSIBLE to change if you want to, i wouldnt have said anything. i was merely giving the contrary opinion on which is better ( for some people), for balance and explaining why your sample and reasoning might be flawed. i havnt said anything equivalent about thumbs only. all ive said is SOME people are justified in using it.

a couple of value judgements you used before my comment.

Quote:
I thumbed for 15 years, then took 6 months off flying, for the purpose of using finger/thumb, when I came back. In 2 months, I was 5 times a better flyer, than thumbs only! Never looked back...
Whatever your use to now, stick to that


Quote:
I tend to disagree.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:41 AM   #17
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EDIT - will be worded better....
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by neverland View Post
actually, you made it pretty clear before my comment which one you think is better; and that it was merely a matter of learning the 'superior' method. if you'd have left it at saying it was POSSIBLE to change if you want to, i wouldnt have said anything. i was merely giving the contrary opinion on which is better ( for some people), for balance and explaining why your sample and reasoning might be flawed. i havnt said anything equivalent about thumbs only. all ive said is SOME people are justified in using it.

a couple of value judgements you used before my comment.



Whatever your use to now, stick to that
I'm not really sure why you feel you have a bone to pick with me. This a quote of the ORIGINAL post...

Quote:
Any experienced 3d pilots here that use thumbs on the sticks? This is how I learned since picking up my first heli (MCP X), but since I have moved to more powerful birds like the 130x and especially the 450x I have found my collective inputs to be very uncontrolled which I"m sure will put one of these into the ground eventually. I've been practing for a good week on the sim to convert to holding the sticks and without a doubt I have much better control all around, and I think for me it was a step in the right direction. Not an easy transition for sure, but I think it is worth the effort.
This is what I was answering. Not once did I mention ANY method being "better", as in, the only way to fly well. Quite the contrary. I did, however, give my experiences with the subject, gleaned over the last 25 years of flying. Nothing I said was in the least bit "judgemental", nor was it MEANT to be. I merely said I agreed with the original poster, that changing can be worth the effort, and that I had, and that my flying has become MUCH BETTER, as a result. And I have known MANY that have made the switch to pinch, and very, very few, that have gone the other way. Now, of course, there's the "video game" crowd, that has come into the hobby, that between texting, and game controllers, has experience with thumbs, before ever flying anything. That, my friend is a HABIT. Now, whether it's a good habit, or bad, is up to the person. I feel it is a bad habit, because it disallows a person from trying both on an equal footing. So be it. But I can only give my advise, based on my experiences. And I answered the original poster's comments, and adddressed him. That you took offense, is your problem, not mine.

Just as an aside...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1891920.stm

That explains a bit of it....

On one last note, I have noticed in virtually every single thread, beating thumbs vs. pinch to death, that often several sets of words crop up, associated with each other. One group of words are "thumbs" and "banging sticks", and the other is "Precise/precision" and "pinch". Seem to go hand it hand. And I'll admit, I am a precise flyer...

And, as for "stick with what your used to now" - the OP mentioned that he WASN'T happy with thumbs. I don't agree with sticking with what you are used to, solely to stick with it. If you think you can improve, by all mean, improve!! Don't let any nay-sayer prevent you...

With this, I am done...

R
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:16 AM   #19
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I'm not really sure why you feel you have a bone to pick with me.
its only because when i made a fairly reasonable argument defending the thumb method (after you, also perfectly reasonably, brought evidence the pinch method was better for anyone who took the trouble to learn it), you came back and said that it was wrong of me to state the opposite opinion. i just thought it was unfair to criticize someone for doing something you had done. its not your opinion that bothered me, but you implying it wasnt right for me to air an opinion also.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:49 AM   #20
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You win. I give up. You're right. You were born right, you've never been more right in your life. I was wrong. I'm always wrong. Did I mention you are right??

Feel better?

Somehow I think everything was lost in the translation, from english to...well, english!!

You are of the opinion I bantered people around. Whatever.

R
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