Warp speed/tail gain

[Stevemech]

I have been tracking down vibrations and noticed something that will affect tail gain.When checking my vib logs I find that the tail spins Warp speed 2300 hs for 13000 tail speed.With the tail blade dia. and speed where seeing tail authority on a whole new level.I recommend low tail gains.On my vib search I found that one of the carbon side plate/bearing fit had gotten loose(I followed the build guide here ,they need CA or they will buzz!
I fitted a new shaft to my busted motor and got my belts aligned minus the lower support bearing.Without that bearing the belts adjust independent, much better!
Steve

[acidkindred]

The lower support bearing for the main shaft or motor?

[Kendo]

Originally Posted by acidkindred

The lower support bearing for the main shaft or motor?

Motor

[frito169]

I can't seem to get my tail to stop moving either very quickly or slower oscillations Never stable I am going to try smaller carbon fiber blades hopefully that will help. I have absolutely no signs of vibrations in my fin or my landing gear. I've about had it with this.

[Lighty]

Have you resized the links also check the the tail arm to the pitch slider.

[frito169]

One thing I can assure you is everything is Assembled properly. I have been a mechanic my whole life on machinery Much more precise than these things. I I keep thinking this tail is just way too authoritative. I'm about out of options the only two things I could think of yet to try besides new tail blades which I'm waiting on is to reverse the direction of the tail rotor and shorten the tail slider movement.
I just was thinking, anybody else having these tail issues, did you have one of the first kits where we had to assemble the tail shaft pulleys onto the tail shaft I'm wondering if I didn't maybe just crush it out of shape and that's causing an issue. Running out of ideas and patience.

[elewout]

i had similar problems maybe this helps depending i your servo

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=480497&page=2

[Stevemech]

Originally Posted by frito169

One thing I can assure you is everything is Assembled properly. I have been a mechanic my whole life on machinery Much more precise than these things. I I keep thinking this tail is just way too authoritative. I'm about out of options the only two things I could think of yet to try besides new tail blades which I'm waiting on is to reverse the direction of the tail rotor and shorten the tail slider movement.
I just was thinking, anybody else having these tail issues, did you have one of the first kits where we had to assemble the tail shaft pulleys onto the tail shaft I'm wondering if I didn't maybe just crush it out of shape and that's causing an issue. Running out of ideas and patience.

What gyro are using?I'm using the 8910a a did cut down the pushrod.I have the servo arm in the closet hole to pivot,about 8mm a nd get 100 both ways.I'm using 62mm blades and you can limit your through to mellow it.If it's doing small wags it's either binding or gyro adjustment.I to crushed my tail my tail pulley and got a replacement from (Nankin ,thanks) but it didn't make any vib difference.No how you feel!
Steve

[Jeff_Barrett]

I haven't tried the stock tail blades myself ... I'm running Edge 60mm CF tail blades and they are rock solid with the DS95i.

I can measure ball link distances for you if you'd like.

Do either of you have vibration logging / analysis on your FBL units that you could post logs of?

[Stevemech]

I've got the Robird G31 with logging but have no idea how to post.It can do live logging while connected with USB cable( not very usefull)and keeps 7+ mintues.My vibs might be normal for the Warp, it's not causeing any problems and my cyclic gains are still set from my last low vib heli .I think the larger swash tends to stablize cyclic inputs frm the gyro?I do love the cyclic speed and smoothness!
Vibs :mainshaft 700-1000
Tail: almost zero
With mainblades off I get 300 on tail and zero on mainshaft
Steve

[Jeff_Barrett]

I would check with the Robird forum and ask how to save the logging.

Alternatively, you could send us screen shots (CTRL-PRTSC), paste them into Paint, save them, and then post the JPGs here.

If I could see the visual log, I might be able to help diagnose the issue better. Analysing vibration logs is so much more than looking at a few numbers. Just ask Georgi in the Skookum forums or Randy (Luvmyhelis).

[Stevemech]

I've gotten pretty good reading and finding my vib problems on my other heli's from trial and error!My mainshaft spike is pretty much a red line where it shows the hs at 2200.That means it's mainshaft vibs, if there where yellow lines near the spike it involves other parts as well.Mine only shows one spike but haven't tryed the new hub that I was sent so that might help a bit.I also tryed 4 sets of blades and all showed the same numbers.Higher hs also lowered vibs so I might just need to speed it up!
Steve

[Jeff_Barrett]

Ok ... I hope you don't get offended by this, but I gotta ask ... how are you balancing your main blades, and did you disassemble your grips and liberally pack the thrust bearings with great (and ensure the smaller ID half goes to the outside)?

[Stevemech]

I use a blade balancer and a scale and also use blades that I know run smooth on my other heli's.
The blade grip bearing inside thrust race both stayed in so only took out and greased the center and outer bearings.
Steve

[Jeff_Barrett]

Ok... so we're not sure if the correct half of the thrust bearing is facing out then? Mine was tight too, so I had to heat the grip and press the bearings out carefully.

All my bearing were bone dry ... quite often, the wrong half of the thrust bearing is facing out from the factory.

[Stevemech]

I'll check that when I change the hub, trying to get the tail reliable, then I'll work on main again.Thought the factory would have installed correct?
Steve

[Jeff_Barrett]

Originally Posted by Stevemech

I'll check that when I change the hub, trying to get the tail reliable, then I'll work on main again.Thought the factory would have installed correct?

Never assume they are installed correct, especially on a scratch build like this. Most manufacturers assume you'll be taking it apart for lubrication, the E5 kit I just built had many pre-assembled components, none of it with thread lock or lubrication ... not becuase it's a poor quality kit (infact, it's one of the highest quality kits I've assembled to date!). I think it is expected that you will take these apart and properly lubricate and threadlock them, the are only partially pre-assembled as guide and to ensure the parts fit.

[Stevemech]

I didn't want to risk damaging them without spares , mine where in tight but I do use my vise as a press so will totaly diassemble and check.
Steve

[frito169]

I'm waiting on new tail blades to hopefully help but after all the bad parts and now this tail issue..... this is the worst heli I've ever built. I don't want to start replacing everything on this heli. It already costs too much. If the new tail blades don't work I think it will have to go on the auction block. Sometimes you have to know when to abandon a sinking ship.

[Stevemech]

That would be an option I would buy, the tail speed is overkill, even faster then my Beam.As I said at the begining of the thread the Warp tail speed is faster than any other 450!It's scarey just spooling up the tail without mains on(so powerfull).
Steve