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Warp 360 Compass Warp 360 Model Helicopter Discussion


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Old 12-29-2012, 12:44 PM   #61
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A500 boom OD is 21/22mm, can't remember exact.
Basically same diameter as most 600/700 machines and it uses no supports like the Warp.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:40 PM   #62
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Also guys, I need to add something here due to a couple pms about dry Warp bearings.

I have three methods of lubing bearings. And on the Warp I noticed most of them were dry or grainy feeling. At least they are within tolerances as far as Abec ratings go. But there is definitely room for improvement. I don't feel great about posting this here as this really was meant for a mod thread and it turned more into a build guide. We already have a better one here in the Warp section.

My first method and the best method available is called the greaser. There is a write up on it in Finless Bobs stickied section here at HF. And it forces the lubricant through just about any bearing made. As even if it is one that has the sealed ends, because no bearing made is completely encased. They leave a crack between the inner race and the outer casing that just about any thin lubricant or grease can get through under pressure. I do have some reservations about doing this on bearings that fully roll during use though. As the grease itself can cause a drag and be counterproductive in some areas. So in those I use a much thinner synthetic and get it to leach into them.

This other method I use during builds when I encounter dry bearings that are use in hinge or back and forth movement areas.. Which these days seems to be the norm for some reason. Especially with aligns. (Truth be told. I have to toss over half of them due to tolerance issues also).
What I do is to make a small mix of the oil they sell that is used to lube Scorpion motors, which is a composition of synthetics. Or synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 10/30 and TriFlow synthetic grease. It doesn't take much. This especially comes in handy with bearings used on the grips or places where they don't spin but are used as a hinge system. The synthetic oil thins it out slightly so that when it is applied right on the crack where the inner race is seated in the casing. That when the inner race is rotated or spun up it sucks the mixture into the bearings. Anything you can use that fits the inner race to rotate it will work. Absolutely the best method is to use a battery powered drill and chuck the shaft into it and hold the outer bearing race while moderately spinning the shaft with the bearing mounted on it. It only takes a short burst or two to get the lube leached into the bearings. But I also do this by hand and it works also. On our Warp build I just installed the main head hub into the grip bearings and rotated it until the mix was pulled into the bearings. The thicker synthetic grease from the TriFlow tends to cushion the bearing packs and they roll much smoother!
But again, on bearings that spin fully such as the main shaft bearings it can actually produce drag. So be careful where you apply this. Sad to say, but in alot of align bearings lately I used it due to how sloppy they were, especially on the inner tail shaft. But ended up replacing them with ceramics as they were too sloppy for any long term use.

The next method I use has two legs to it. If you are prepping for a build the next day and have either a small glass jar, or even a used plastic prescription pharmacy pill jar. Which is my favorite. Fill it half full with any decent synthetic oil. Preferably a 10/30 mix. And toss the bearings that are used in any full rotation area on the heli into the oil bath. Even the synthetic used that is sold to lube up Scorpion motors will work well. And it leaches into the bearings through the very small crack between the inner race and sides of the bearings. I spin them a few times after the bath just to insure it has worked.

The other method I use is seen in the earlier build pics. What works perfectly is to use a thin long oil application tube to get the oil precisely around the tiny opening around the ends of the race. Much like the needles they use to give a guy a shot. Either the synthetic oil again used and sold for the Scorpion works well or I use my very old long thin oil can with 10/30 synthetic in it also. Then I spin the bearing by hand or by drill, and the bearing will suck the oil into them. It doesn't hurt to rotate the bearing the other way either after you have done it in one direction. This insures it gets into the bearing.

Honestly over the last few years in the 450 class I haven't met too many factory bearings that didn't need this treatment. So it isn't like our Warps are deficient or worse than any others. Really I haven't seen properly lubed bearings until you get into the specialty ones such as the abec 5 rated versions and upper end ceramics.

If you do this process right, and fully balance and index your Warp. It has the potential to be one of the smoothest vibe free helis ever made!
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:01 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimpyGolden View Post
A500 boom OD is 21/22mm, can't remember exact.
Basically same diameter as most 600/700 machines and it uses no supports like the Warp.
Okay, Atom boom is too big. Anyone know the OD of the Protos boom, not the Mini?
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:09 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Okay, Atom boom is too big. Anyone know the OD of the Protos boom, not the Mini?
I can tell you coming week, I have a protos 500 boom on the way and some new digital calipers haha
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:11 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandorV View Post
I can tell you coming week, I have a protos 500 boom on the way and some new digital calipers haha
Excellent! Wouldn't it be easier just to ask in the Protos forum though? I will do this right now.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #66
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Nice, let us know!
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:31 PM   #67
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The outside diameter is 17mm
Inside diameter is 16mm
Regular boom length is 444mm
Stretch boom length is 505mm
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:58 PM   #68
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So it should fit with some sanding and cutting.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandorV View Post
So it should fit with some sanding and cutting.
Looks like it. Also he came back and edited the post with pics in the protos section, post #5. Sadly I can't link it with my new chrome. So I took a pic. http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=484157
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:39 AM   #70
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That' good to know. If the stock tail pulley could be used (or an appropriate pulley could be sourced, there's an easy path towards a dual slider tail.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:34 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotY View Post
That' good to know. If the stock tail pulley could be used (or an appropriate pulley could be sourced, there's an easy path towards a dual slider tail.
That would be very nice.
Two days ago i made the mod with the longer bolt holding the pitch slider arm and the locknut in the end.
It's better for now, but i know that when the threads in the bolt start to wear, there will be gap again beetween the bolt and the bearings.
I thought to get custom made shanked bolts, with precisely 2.5mm, because even 2.5mm shanked bolts have around 2.4 mm in the shanked area. Sliding a 2.5 mm drill bit is much tighter than a 2.5 shanked bolt.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:44 PM   #72
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Good thoughts

I do have something to add with the dual slider idea. I have been thinking about this since the very minute I ordered my Warp 360. (I just lost my entire post due to a timeout, I hate this!)

Earlier I ordered in a Trex 500 tail assembly just to make comparisons and see what if anything was interchangeable. What I came up with is surprising and quite simple.

I pulled the slider bushing out of the Align tail to make a side by side comparison to see if anything was interchangeable. What I found is not only the Warp's slider bushing shorter, but the threads are much coarser. So the Align slider arm will not fit the Warps bushing or the other way around. The bushing however does fit inside the wider Align slider hub. There are actually enough threads engaging to pull this off!

What this means, is now we can introduce any Align 500 tail system into the warp, including the dual slider system! Or just use their dual slider hub with the Warps own tail blade system. Notice the hubs height is the same also. We might have to extend the tail shaft slightly to get the grip angles we need since the wider slider hub takes some of the room out of the movement. No big deal though. The Align slider bushing and hub are on the left. Bushing still in my grips as it is still hot from removing it. And pic two shows them side by side. Pic three shows the fact the slider bushing still allows us to introduce the Align hub over it. So! We can now introduce either the stock Warps. Or we can change anything out to allow us to use any Align style grips also.

Really all that is left is to introduce the Kde/Align bell crank arms mounting bracket onto the Warp's CF tail plate in the right spot to make this happen! Hopefully the pics came through since HF is having some nasty site problems. If they didn't I will try again when I can.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:59 PM   #73
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No pics yet. Yeah, HF has been acting up for a while now for me.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:53 PM   #74
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Hey Randy,
How are those RC-Tek tail assemblies? I like the old school pitch change mechanism, they can be much better than the typical slider/bellcrank if done right. Only thing is I worry about the weight...it's gotta be heavier than the stock parts and I'm thinking I'd like to keep it as light as possible, using heavier batteries only to make CG.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:01 PM   #75
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If you lose your post due to the timeout crap Randy....just clik the refresh button in your browser and clik resend info..and it'll go right through...
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotY View Post
Hey Randy,
How are those RC-Tek tail assemblies? I like the old school pitch change mechanism, they can be much better than the typical slider/bellcrank if done right. Only thing is I worry about the weight...it's gotta be heavier than the stock parts and I'm thinking I'd like to keep it as light as possible, using heavier batteries only to make CG.
Helihaven and I discussed the 500 RcTek assemblies just last night to great extent. Flerpie has one on his 500 and it is a fairly complex assembly. We are thinking of trying to introduce the tri rotor into the design of his Warp 360 raised tail assembly. And he is convinced he can integrate it into a normal dual control slider that he designed earlier. Bob's (Rc-Tek) parts are simply the best of the best in precision machine work. I have an email in with Bob to see if I can just buy the rotor/grip assembly. I already have two Rc-Tek 550 tri rotor hubs that will work with the grip assemblies. We have a few issues left to work out though.

On Bob's current design the actual tri rotor grip control arm moves in and out at the end of an inside shaft to control grip angle. The actual tail shaft itself is hollow to accommodate this much like a coaxial. The bell crank arm is on the opposite side of the tail assembly. Like I said, this is a whole different tail design.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:08 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helihaven View Post
If you lose your post due to the timeout crap Randy....just clik the refresh button in your browser and clik resend info..and it'll go right through...
Yeah, that works most the time. But not always. Frustrating. And right now it won't allow me to download the pics.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:12 PM   #78
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I'm going to check into using the Blade 450x tail parts, also 4mm shaft and uses a 14mm boom.Going to see what can work, not planing to stretch so don't want the weight of 500 parts.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:04 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevemech View Post
I'm going to check into using the Blade 450x tail parts, also 4mm shaft and uses a 14mm boom.Going to see what can work, not planing to stretch so don't want the weight of 500 parts.
Steve
Might be a good move! This heli really doesn't need the 500 tail parts. I consider them overkill on any 450, stretched or not. But they are nice to have.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 AM   #80
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I think it's a complete waste I don't feel it's nice to have on anyway. the only thing it does is make this tail superheavy, bad design. How does one design a helicopter that doesn't COG with the recommended weight etc. The only way I can get mine to balance is if I put a bunch more weight in the nose and It's already the heaviest 450 I've ever owned. I keep thinking I want to try to just drill out my 450 Furion tail and make that work one way or another. I'll bet that would take care of my COG issue.
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