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Old 12-20-2012, 01:16 AM   #1
vmmattil
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Default First 3D tricks with 130x

So what should I start practicing first? I see lots of good tips in the stickies. If you had to choose one thing to start practicing on what would it be? Loops, inverted hover?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:29 AM   #2
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Sorry, I don't mean to nitpick, just trying to get a little clarification...aren't loops and inverted considered sport flying? I thought 3d is more along the lines of tictocs, piro flips, chaos, etc.

Anyways...on to your question. I don't know what all you can do, so it's hard to recommend what to learn next. But flips, rolls, loops, backwards flight, funnels, hurricanes, those are some good maneuvers to learn after you've got the hang of forward flight.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by txheli15 View Post
Sorry, I don't mean to nitpick, just trying to get a little clarification...aren't loops and inverted considered sport flying? I thought 3d is more along the lines of tictocs, piro flips, chaos, etc.
It really depends whom you are talking to: all 'beginners' and similar are going to say the moment helicopter is inverted that is 3D (it moves in three axis - not only two as in upright flight), while advanced fliers would say that 3D is when you need to command (and correct) your helicopter along three axis. Each axis you, generally, leave stick at neutral position is not count. So, for instance flip is 2D as you are using elevator and collective, while funnel is (even upright one) as you are using aileron, elevator and rudder (and collective? LOL) at the same time to define the way helicopter is going to move.

- - -

Back to vmmattil's question: I feel I am repeating myself, but good way into any of 'tricks' is be confident flying or hovering in any orientation. It sounds like stuff all of us got quite quickly but the moment one tries to slowly pirouette helicopter on the spot, all fears, blind spots and problems are visible.

So, I wholeheartedly recommend learning upright and inverted slow pirouetting (on the spot). Slow as in not faster than 6 second for full rotation. Slower the better - 10-15s per rotation is fine. Both direction. On the spot. If 'on the spot' is actually 'all over the place' to start with - it is fine - it is a part of learning process.

Learning how to pirouette slowly will give you following (upright and inverted - both directions):

- quick pirouettes on the spot (be able to pirouette your helicopter on the spot for unlimited amount of time. (everyone can do one, two, three maybe even four before they have to stop. doing one after another continuously requires skills).
- flying in all orientations (forward, backward, sideways) (figures of 8 in both directions, etc)
- nose in and tail funnels (I must admit I can't do opposite side ones - only CW tail in upright and CCW tail in inverted)
- piro circuits (at least same direction as piros - CW circuits with CW piros and other way round)

This will give you chance to learn half piro flips and piro flips. Ability to flip helicopter into inverted and not worry about orientation and/or be able to correct it naturally. When you can flip - you can do loops... Rolls are quite easy, too..

And for bonus - you will be crashing far, far less if you learn them upfront. From personal experience: I was able to fly upright around, do a flip or two, and nice loops. But, if loop ends pear shaped, in slightly less light (plenty of gray, gloomy days here) I ended up in some orientation I wasn't quite sure about and lost it and crashed it a few times. Had I learned to fly confidently in all orientations first....
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:47 PM   #4
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Great advice guys. Yeah I mean sport flying to begin with. Slow pirouettes is a good tip. By pirouette you mean from a hover, spin the heli around using rudder and trying to keep it on the spot?
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:59 AM   #5
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Great advice guys. Yeah I mean sport flying to begin with. Slow pirouettes is a good tip. By pirouette you mean from a hover, spin the heli around using rudder and trying to keep it on the spot?
But I wouldn't call it spin the heli - more like just slowly rotate it! And try to make yourself do it in both directions!
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:21 AM   #6
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Is this btw doable with the 130X? To stay exactly on the spot? My first tries ended up with the heli drifting around in a 3m radius.

In the Phoenix Sim, it went better with the 500x.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:19 AM   #7
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I couldn't find a thread on this "how to progress in sport flying" - anyone know of a good resource on this?

I also have a problem with Practicing in Phoenix simulator...it gets boring in 10minutes.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:29 AM   #8
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Is this btw doable with the 130X? To stay exactly on the spot? My first tries ended up with the heli drifting around in a 3m radius.

In the Phoenix Sim, it went better with the 500x.
I am sure I can do it in 50cm x 50cm x 50cm cube and probably even smaller. But to do so, you need to be able to constantly correct the heli.

And learning how to correct it is actually reaching you all the necessary skills regarding orientation. When you start - it can well be 3m radius - but slowly you'll learn what to do and keep it steadier. And key is slowness to start with. Slower it goes more you need to work at each position/orientation.

If I get some time I can give it a go tomorrow or on Sunday. And if I remember!
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:43 PM   #9
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It really depends whom you are talking to: all 'beginners' and similar are going to say the moment helicopter is inverted that is 3D (it moves in three axis - not only two as in upright flight), while advanced fliers would say that 3D is when you need to command (and correct) your helicopter along three axis. Each axis you, generally, leave stick at neutral position is not count. So, for instance flip is 2D as you are using elevator and collective, while funnel is (even upright one) as you are using aileron, elevator and rudder (and collective? LOL) at the same time to define the way helicopter is going to move.

Thank goodness someone else agrees! I have irritated SOOO many Helifreak members with the same definition of 3D.

With the 3/4 axis definition of true 3D, I cannot get my 130x to do much in the way of 3D. In stock form it lacks the power. I can piro flip my Trex 700 dozens of times consecutively, but cannot get a single piro flip out of the 130x before the engine bogs and it falls out of the maneuver. A piro flip, done textbook, flips the rotor disk perfectly on one plane, while the tail rotates at a constant rate around the Z axis. This requires stirring the cyclic stick (actuating all 3 linear servos) and pitching the tail (adding in the fourth servo and transferring more load from the tail. Again, my stock 130x can't handle this.

However, in the spirit of this thread, my learning advice for the 130x is to use it to safely learn ALL and I mean ALL of your orientations. That's why I bought it. Sometimes I fly an entire battery in forward inverted flight around the yard just to practice. It also got me over my mental block that was inhibiting me from backwards inverted flight.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by vmmattil View Post
I couldn't find a thread on this "how to progress in sport flying" - anyone know of a good resource on this?

I also have a problem with Practicing in Phoenix simulator...it gets boring in 10minutes.
You may not find it under sport flying per se. If you search for "skills, progression, advancement, levels I think it will get you headed in the right direction. Also look on the IRCHA web site under Pilot Proficiency Levels PPL you'll find some of the best advice for skill progression there is. Sport flying, not unlike 3D, is a sort of ill defined term and as such has limited value in a discussion like this. FWIW if I had to define sport flying it would be as forward, upright and inverted flight with simple aerobatics, loops, rolls, hammerheads with a mix perhaps of backwards flight thrown in. For me the realm of 3D really starts when you get into piros superimposed on top of other maneuvers where a stir of the cyclic comes into play.

Everyone will find a flying style they enjoy and make their own. A safe and competent pilot will follow a sensible skill progression like the one on the IRCHA website.

So it's boring after 10 minutes. Thats normal. Quit. Come back for another 10 minutes later in the day. Many short focused sim sessions will pay much larger dividends than few longer ones where you just fly around with no real specific goals in mind. Don't burn yourself out on the sim. You will end up telling people the sim is of little value when the opposite is clearly, to me anyway, the case.
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by danyl View Post
Thank goodness someone else agrees! I have irritated SOOO many Helifreak members with the same definition of 3D.

With the 3/4 axis definition of true 3D, I cannot get my 130x to do much in the way of 3D. In stock form it lacks the power. I can piro flip my Trex 700 dozens of times consecutively, but cannot get a single piro flip out of the 130x before the engine bogs and it falls out of the maneuver.
I am pretty sure people can do continious piro flips with 130X in stock form with, good, stock batter. I can do 2-3in a row myself even they are far from perfect... It is all in collective management and smaler sligtly underpowered heli is perfecr to learn it on...
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:04 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by danyl View Post
Thank goodness someone else agrees! I have irritated SOOO many Helifreak members with the same definition of 3D.

With the 3/4 axis definition of true 3D, I cannot get my 130x to do much in the way of 3D. In stock form it lacks the power.
You need to practice more. It's a stock 130x.


OP: just do what clicky said, slow piros can be done on the spot on 130x.
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