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Old 01-05-2013, 04:55 PM   #1
Gregor99
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Default Looking for a sharper more locked in feel

Recently converted my Compass 600E over to FBL using the 540. I've been very impressed by the 540. I'm running 1950 and 2050 using the Skookum governor with a Castle, which has exceeded my expectations.

I've been working on dialing in the settings and am getting there. The weather has been bad and I don't foresee having a day where I can do a lot of tuning. I was hoping to get some direction to help reduce the number of different configurations to try. I've been using the cyclic banks to test two settings at time. But its going slow. I'm currently at:

Cyclic Gain=65%
Control Rates= 236 270
Hiller Decay=140%
Bell Gain = 55 55
Hiller Gain 50 50
Cyclic Accell 30%

Overall, it flies quite nice. However I am looking for just a little more aggressive response to my cyclic input, both in starting movement as well as stopping movement. Overall flip and roll rate is fine. Just looking to sharpen the response to cyclic input a little bit.

Increasing the cyclic gain from 50 to 60 then to 65 helped make the feel more solid which helped stiffen the response to stopping movement. Like doing a roll or a flip then abruptly stopping movement. I did try 70% which did not result in any cyclic wobbling. But it did make the model feel a little too stiff, if you know what I mean. Right now I am getting a slight bobble only on the elevator stops, which was helped by disabling the auto tuning and lowering the Bell gains.

I did try playing with the cyclic accell and didn't find that made a huge difference. Next I was thinking about trying the following:
  • Reducing the overall cyclic gain to 60%. With Bell gain at 55% I still get a little elevator bounce on stops.
  • Reduce the Hiller decay. Not sure how far to go. Seems like most are running higher than I am. While I will try it for myself, just wondering if anyone has had success running decay low, like below 100.
  • Increase the control rates.
  • Increase the cyclic accel. Looking for some guidance here. 30% did not feel to sharp. Anybody have success running higher values?
Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions?
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:03 PM   #2
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Loaded in the following settings to test on my next outing:

Both banks:
Overall gain reduced from 65% to 60%
Cyclic Accel increased from 30% to 40%

Cyclic 1
Control rate 280 using basic (was 270) advanced shows 240/280
Decay at 100 (was 140)

Cyclic 2
Control rate 330 using basic. Advanced shows 280/330
Decay 60
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:51 PM   #3
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Hey Greg,
I think from what you are describing Hiller Decay is what you want to play with. The lower the HD the more HH gyro feel you get. The higher the HD the more rate mode you get. At 200% the swash will return to level when you let go of the cyclic stick. At 0% HD the swash will remain in place until you give it another input from the cyclic stick. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:21 AM   #4
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Hi

I'm running a 6hv with similar settings to your 1st Post. I think my rates are 280 280 cyclic accell 45 but I would defo try running a higher head speed. The 6hv which is similar to yours really comes alive at 2250. It will also give the gyro the mechanical performance envelope to make it feel snappier!



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Old 01-06-2013, 01:08 PM   #5
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Yes, I was thinking an increase in headspeed would take of it. But I wanted to see if some of the performance I'm after could be achieved with FBL tuning. Increasing headspeed has other issues, mainly reduced flight time and its harder on the packs. I may go there after exhausting the Skookum's tuning options.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:43 PM   #6
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Cyclic acc will help it feel faster with low bell gains! Try 45% on 1 bank with all the other settings the same Worked for me
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:39 PM   #7
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+1 on the headspeed. 600's will be ok, but still relatively sluggish at 2k. Even if you fly 620s, same thing. They will fly well, but will not be sharp. Doesn't matter how you tune the fbl, it can only work as well as the physics it must follow. I flew my stretch trex 550e with 620s at 2300-2400. If you want sharp response, try at least 2200-2250 like snakey said.
I even fly my rave with 710's at 2100.that's the butter zone for me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:13 AM   #8
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Decrease your Damping Gain. This value automatically increases as you increase the Hiller Gain - so manually decrease it...and then increase your Hiller gain some more.

Decreasing the Damping Gain will make your heli snappier since increasing it mimics heavier main blades digitally - the last thing you want on a 600 sized heli. Heavier main blades will soften the initial response of aileron and pitch. Too much Damping Gain and the heli will fight against you when you try to roll, flip, and yaw. However, too little and your heli will feel loose.

By the way, for the Tail it is known as the Rate Gain, and I apply the same logic as above.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:13 PM   #9
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Dropping the elev dampening gain to around 9 should get rid of the elev bounce. It's just about gone on the 700e dfc.

At one point I had the bell up around 85 and the hiller was maybe 80 on a 600N. This was with the control rates up around 340? Don't remember exactly but then I turned up the accel. Had to turn it all back down, it was wicked fast.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverexpress01 View Post
Decreasing the Damping Gain will make your heli snappier since increasing it mimics heavier main blades digitally
Thank you for that. I hadn't found that description of the effects damping gain previously, but it makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helos4me View Post
Dropping the elev dampening gain to around 9 should get rid of the elev bounce.
Sounds like I need to drop the damping gain for other reasons as well. Nice to be address the bounce and feel with one setting. Thanks for posting the number. Not that I will jump directly to that, but its good to know what others are running for reference.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:03 PM   #11
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Had a chance to test out the settings in post #2. In addition to those, I lowered my damping gain to 5 and 10. Unfortunately it did not quite get me where I wanted to be. This may come as no surprise, but increasing the headspeed from 2050 to 2150 had much more pleasing affect than tweaking the FBL settings.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:18 PM   #12
snaaakeey
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Default Looking for a sharper more locked in feel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor99 View Post
Had a chance to test out the settings in post #2. In addition to those, I lowered my damping gain to 5 and 10. Unfortunately it did not quite get me where I wanted to be. This may come as no surprise, but increasing the headspeed from 2050 to 2150 had much more pleasing affect than tweaking the FBL settings.
Sweeeet!




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