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Old 12-16-2007, 06:15 AM   #121
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Yep! there are several ways to achieve the same results! I am showing a way for most to get it right as fast as possible without having to explain that.

I get a PM at least once a week from someone that cant seem to get it right so this time I took the road that I know they cant miss......


Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:23 AM   #122
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Yep! there are several ways to achieve the same results! I am showing a way for most to get it right as fast as possible without having to explain that.

I get a PM at least once a week from someone that cant seem to get it right so this time I took the road that I know they cant miss......
Bob
Hi again

Thanks for your reply.

My question was more, why did you choose to have all the servos go "the wrong way" in the servo reverse menu, and then correct it in the swash mixing?

Why not correct the "error" in the servo reverse?

Thanks a million.

Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:31 AM   #123
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Again there are several ways to get it working right.... get all 3 working together FIRST makes it easier for people to get their head around reversing vs swash menu. AND it's easier to explain......

I mean comon... WHATS the difference really? NONE..........

I have seen people screw around with reversing trying to get things going right so much that they get in a STUCK position..... When they cant get it they start moving the connections to the RX and next thing you know they are posting in a forum HELP......

I ain't saying my way is the best just showing what I know will get them there......

Remember my vids are for n00bs to follow and get it done.... You want to do it another way.... GO FOR IT!

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:37 AM   #124
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Again there are several ways to get it working right.... get all 3 working together FIRST makes it easier for people to get their head around reversing vs swash menu. AND it's easier to explain......

I mean comon... WHATS the difference really? NONE..........

I have seen people screw around with reversing trying to get things going right so much that they get in a STUCK position..... When they cant get it they start moving the connections to the RX and next thing you know they are posting in a forum HELP......

I ain't saying my way is the best just showing what I know will get them there......

Remember my vids are for n00bs to follow and get it done.... You want to do it another way.... GO FOR IT!

Bob
Bob
You do show the easiest way
It showed me when I was learning and and you make it SOOOOO simple IMHO
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:44 AM   #125
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Bob
You do show the easiest way
It showed me when I was learning and and you make it SOOOOO simple IMHO
Thanks..... If I had to show the reversing way I would use more video because I like to EXPLAIN WHY you are doing something.... If I just SHOWED YOU sure that would work too but I like to explain WHY you are doing what your doing.........

If this really is a problem for people..... Hell I could have reversed the servo connections at the RX (pitch and aileron) and that would have worked too.....

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:58 AM   #126
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The problem is, for a newbie, you tell them about reversing to get the swash moving the right way, and then they get confused with aileron or elevator move backwards and try to fix it via servo reversing.

And since it all comes out the same in the end, not a big deal, do it either way.

But I agree with Bob, the quickest and easiet to understand is get them all moving together, THEN worry about the direction.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:31 AM   #127
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Bob:

I told you this before but YOU ROCK! I had been flying airplanes for 16 years and with Bob's videos I was able to put a 600N together in such a way that my friends were stunt how well it came out. Needless to say that I did not even know what CCPM was and where to connect what. Bob's videos are very clear and extremely helpfull. Usualy people who use these videos need the help. If you know what to do then do it and stop picking the videos apart, others like myself realy need his help to get it right.

Thanks Bob...looking forward to the 700 Build videos :-)
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:42 AM   #128
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I think you are getting me wrong.

I was just trying to understand why it was done in that order - not to question if it worked or not.

What is logical for you is not necessarily logic for me, and vise versa.

I will refrain from this type of questions in the future ...


Best regards

Peter
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:48 AM   #129
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I think you are getting me wrong.

I was just trying to understand why it was done in that order - not to question if it worked or not.

What is logical for you is not necessarily logic for me, and vise versa.

I will refrain from this type of questions in the future ...


Best regards

Peter
Peter... PLEASE don't refrain from asking questions! You are right man and please don't think people are jumping on you supporting me OK!
I DON'T think they are.....They are just pointing out the same thing I said which is how best to teach a n00b the easiest way.... Remember my vids are not for a pro but a new person building this heli.... Thats why I do them!

You are RIGHT to ask questions and debate how I do things. In fact THANK YOU for asking as this allows people to LEARN and also understand other ways!

PLEASE I like that you asked this question as I think it makes people THINK man! THUMBS UP to you!

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:31 AM   #130
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In another portion of HF, there was a discussion about subtrim. One person asserted that you should never, ever use subtrim. You should accomplish the perfect neutral position through other means such as arm selection.

This leads me to two questions:

1) Why is subtrim evil? Does it create uneven throws of the servo?
2) Is this reasonably possible in any, let alone all, setups?

I've not yet found a way to do it with any of mine. Heck, in a lot of cases, it's not even what I'd call "as close as I'd like".

John
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:40 AM   #131
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PLEASE I like that you asked this question as I think it makes people THINK man! THUMBS UP to you! Bob
Thanks - I will keep asking questions, then

Peter

PS: I am no pro - I am a newbie too, but I like to understand what I am doing, and why.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:38 AM   #132
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Quote:
PS: I am no pro - I am a newbie too, but I like to understand what I am doing, and why.
Thats OK..... I LOVE questions and debating the best way.... Please ALWAYS feel welcome to ask man!

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:15 PM   #133
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John, I am in no way an expert on this, but I asked the same questions at some point.

I think the term "sub trim evil" is rubbish - no such thing. Use sub-trim all you want, but once you use it "excessively" (and just how much is that??) it WILL affect your system in a degree that it will affect your flying.

In a "pure" 90 degree swash system it doesn´t matter much (unless you go to extremes), but in a 120 system where the swash is worked by three servoes that are interlinked it matters a lot. Because to work together the most, they HAVE to be set up the same. The more they are not, the less "pure" the system becomes and this will be felt in the controls quite early (with only little impurities).

Trims and subtrims are "offsets" from center and they WILL affect the travel range and/or speed of the servoarm - no matter how little you put in. So if you i.e. have two servos that are not trimmed and one that is, you automatically have a system that is not consisting of equal movement and this WILL affect your flying in some degree.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

/Henrik
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:34 PM   #134
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OK, that makes sense. I guess the only true way to fix it would be to stick to Hitec digital servos and get their programmer. That's an expensive route to go, however...

It's interesting that in the age of digital transmitters and servos that we still use an analog signal for control of the servos. Of course, if we didn't, I'm sure each vendor would come up with their own protocol, turning it into a brand-locked mess...

Thanks!
John
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Old 12-16-2007, 12:54 PM   #135
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kookmaker there is a MYTH and I am going to bust it right now!

Most radios today that are SMART will skew when you use subtrim and center within those new points.
However this is NOT true when you use stick trim!
This entire "don't use subtrim" thing is a FREAKIN myth.... TRUST ME!
I personally have measured servo throw and ATV (or EPA) when using subtrim up to 100 steps and it does NOT effect ATV (or EPA's) at all. There is nothing wrong with using subtrim to 90 your servos even on a CCPM system! Anyone thats says that is not true is OLD SCHOOL as this is how older radios worked!!!! Newer radios DON'T work that way even when swash is set to CCPM 120 or 140!

So you know I have had PRO's tell me that my videos telling people to use subtrim on a CCPM heli was not right! THEN I showed them USING THEIR radio that no matter how much you dialed in subtrim, it still did not effect the ends of throw. They stammered then HAWed and said "well if you put your ATVs at 150 for max resolution then it does"..... WHO DOES THAT? Even they didn't do that! WTF?

Anyway I cant speak for all radios but for sure I know that sub-trimming on the following radios DOES NOT effect ATV or cause interactions.
Futaba 9C
Futaba 7C
JR 9303 or the new X9303
DX7
Futaba 14mz
Futaba 9Z

So anyone telling someone to NOT use subtrims on the above radios is FULL OF IT... Sorry that is the facts jack.... If someone tells you that crap,,,,,, it is MYTH and ask them to prove it to you! A protractor and calipers will revealed the TRUTH.
When they loose the bet please send me 1% of the winnings

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 01:23 PM   #136
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Thanks for clearing that myth up Bob I have heard that same myth around my club and still going strong today.
and they arre using all the radio's above you mentioned.
+1 for the new guy
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:00 PM   #137
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Ya know what booger (love than handle BTW reminds me of the revenge of the nerds movie) but all this talk about not using subtrim really cranks my chain

People that like to SPOUT fact that comes from Joe Schmo which was said by Jack, which "says" this came from Curtis or some Pro...... Really should do some REAL fact finding on their own before that start telling everyone else what the facts are! So you know that HE SAID SHE SAID crap is what gets my goat! Every weekend I spend time SHOWING people the truth about things like this. I enjoy doing it and in the long run I hope it spreads......

Bob
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:09 PM   #138
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Good information for us rookies Bob.Now if I can just get past the stigma of using karbonite instead of metal gears,I might be able to quit therapy completely.
Todd
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:43 PM   #139
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Hey Bob, can u tell us what tools are needed for the build. You know like what size allen wrenches?? Thanks Alot!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:06 PM   #140
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thanks for the vid's bob cant wait till i can get my hands on one
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