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Old 01-16-2008, 02:03 PM   #1
Finless
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Default Power systems discussion

Well since people seem to keep asking "WHAT are the best batteries for the 500?" I felt a sticky power systems post would help people find what others are using and how opinions on how they like them.

For now this will be more of a battery discussion but later as others try different motors this discussion can be about that as well.

In the next post I will add my battery thoughts and then in a 3rd post I will add some motors that I know some have used and they can add to it.

But please lets not SPAM up this thread!
Lets try to stick with some rules:
1) Post what you have used for batteries. List pack type, C rating, and Ma capacity.
2) Please also list the motor used, pinion, throttle curves, ESC settings, and if you can head speed.
3) Please give flight time and MA used from the pack!
4) Explain what your thoughts about that setup and your flying style.
5) Share a video using YouTube if you can.

So lets get started!

Bob
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:04 PM   #2
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My thgoughts on different batteries. Bottom line this heli has a very large set of battery choices based on how you want to fly, flight duration, etc...

I am going to list the choices that I know work, my thoughts and tests about them, and also links to videos using them where they are available.

6S choices:
6S 2200 25C packs - This makes the heli lite but depending on setup can be tail heavy. I have to move my packs way down on the batt tray to balance it. But I really do like how it flys this lite! It's one of my favorite setups. Running 13T pinion at 100% flat curve gives great power but flight time with my style is 4.5 minutes.
Here is my first flight vid using 2200 6S packs and stock motor:
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...=500report.wmv
And here is a video of Alan Szabo I shot at a show flying 2200 13T pinion
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...zabo500ama.wmv

6S 2500 25C - A little heavier but a good trade off. They do balance the heli perfectly. 13T pinion 100% flat throttle curve gives a solid 5 minutes+ flight time with my style of flying.

6S 2500 18C Evolites - This drops the weight back down but still gives the same 5+ minutes flight time. I am thinking this is a good way to go! I just got these so still testing them. Don't worry about the 18C rating as they have no problem handling the amp draw on this heli. Here is a video using these packs by Kevin but realize he is no longer using a stock motor.
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...e=evoscorp.wmv
Also see this post about that setup and power discussion:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=56947

6S 3300 25C - I have not tried this yet as I dont have these packs. But based on my 6S 3700 tests (see below) it seems like a good balance for those wanting longer flight times. My estimate is that with this pack and 13T pinion 100% flat curve you should get 7-8 minutes with my type of flying style. However weight is now going up and as I said right now I am preferring a lighter heli BUT don't get me wrong this heli has such a light disk loading already these packs should make a lot of people happy wanting more flight time. Be aware though that they will be a tight fit in the canopy.

6S 3700 25C - This is about the biggest pack you can fit. Even then we could not get the bottom of the canopy to go into the split at the bottom of the frame. BUT the pack was long enough that it kept the canopy from coming off. Again weight went way up and in fact made the heli nose heavy. For people running a full sized tail servo it "may" balance. Surprisingly the heli still flew pretty darn good! I was surprised. For those doing sport to moderate 3D and want maximum flight time this is a consideration. Here is a video of that test:
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...me=6s37003.wmv

5S choices:
Of course all of the above packs could be a 5S configuration as well... BUT flight time will be less apples to apples... I have not done any 5S testing myself yet so this is all estimates on my part. I will eliminate the 2200 - 2500 as a 5S solution as whats the point? if 6S 2200 gets 4.5 minutes 5S is going to be even shorter.

5S 3300 25C - Well I just got these packs and will start testing with 15T and 16T pinions. As many know JK is flying this setup with 15T pinion. With his style of flying he says he gets 7 minutes but realize the guy has collective management better than 99% of all of us. With my style I think I will get 5.5 to 6 minutes. Also realize head speed is lower than 6S 13T with 5S 15T. You could go up in pinion to get the head speed back up but time will go down. Head speed to head speed (e.g. use pinions that give 6S and 5S the same head speed) and time between 5S will be less than the same MA as 6S. However weight will be less too. So a 6S 2500 is going to be pretty close to a 5S 3300 getting the head speed to match but with 6S probably having an edge.
Here is a video I shot of JK flying this setup
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...ause500ama.wmv

5S 3700 25C - Well obviously weight will be less than the same pack on 6S and the pack will probably fit and allow the canopy to clip in the bottom slit. Again weight is up. I wont be trying this configuration myself but this could be a max flight time solution too.

4S choices:
Sorry not going there but YES it can be run on 4S. I just don't think it is a worth while solution though unless it is a big pack and a different motor... Time well tell as users try things like this.

Anyway there is my battery thoughts.... May not be the end all but after fooling around with a few choices myself I got some idea of different solutions and how they might work in this heli.

In the end I am going to say this again. If someone comes out with a 6S Evo Lite type battery at about 3000 and 3200 MA which weighs about the same or better yet less than a 2500 25C 6s pack, I think we will have a perfect balance between flight time and weight for best 3D feel.

Hope this helps?

Bob
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:08 PM   #3
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Motors that I know some people have used.

Fireup:
Hyperion 3025-12 using a 26T pinion.
Scorpion 1400KV with 16 and 15T pinion. Here is a video of that setup with 16T pinion.
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...=evoscorp2.wmv
Here is a post about that setup
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=56947

Duke600:
Align 600L motor with 13T pinion. Here is a discussion about that:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=56123

Thats all I have seen for motors so other add your freaky setups

Bob
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:34 AM   #4
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Trex 500 1
FP EVO25 6S 3700
Stock ESC/Motor on 12T
100% flat
6 minutes sport/3D
1850 back in

Flying style is mixture of rolls, flips, loops, ticocs and funnels.

Trex 500 2
Protek 20C 5S 4000
Stock ESC/Motor on 16T
100% flat
7 minutes sport/3D
2830 back in so room for another minute of same flight or increased 3D flying the same 7 minutes.

Flying style is a mixture of rolls, flips, loops, tictocs.

This 5S pack fits with canopy going into frame slot but make the heli slightly nose heavy even with full size servo. You can slide it up the tray some to get weight shifted back a little but you will need to put the lip of the canopy above the slot or make new holes in canopy. This pack actually has a section around the wires that is about 3/4" of silicone that probably adds about 15 to 20 grams. Not sure if its safe to remove or how much it would change the CG. Although it is nose heavy its not bad at all.

Not sure of headspeed on either. 5S setup with 16t seems to be comparible to the first 500 6S on 12 and 13. Im happy with 6S on 13 but I dropped to 12 and the heli seems to fly basically the same and manuevers remained tight so I opted for the extra flight time.

Last edited by Socal500; 01-18-2008 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:13 AM   #5
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The big selling point before release was that we'd be able to use two 3s packs in series-guess that went out the window?
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpspeed View Post
The big selling point before release was that we'd be able to use two 3s packs in series-guess that went out the window?
No it didnt you can still use them and get 5-6 minutes sport flying with a head speed of about 2500 or 4 minutes 2700 head speed 3D.
As I said I still tend to like the lighter setup with 6S 2200 packs but flight time is not as long as I like.

Thanks for the report Socal500!

Bob
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:30 PM   #7
rob-atl
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Default TRex 500- 14t fairly good for sharing 6s & 5s packs

Trex 500 :
6s/ 5s combo setup, 14 tooth pinion
Flightpower 2500, 6s, 25C (& secondly, FP 3300, 5s, 25c)
Stock Motor on 14T; Hyperion 80A esc while Align replaces defective stock ESC
ST2- 100% flat yields 2800 hover with fresh pack, 22amps hover; ST2 yields 2250 on 5s
ST1- flat 75%: Gives 2500-2600 on 6s @ 20 amps hover
Norm- 0-65-65-65-65 (increased at minute 5.5 on graph): Gives 2100-2200 on 6s at 15 amp hover.
6.5-7 minutes hovering at mixed Headspeeds, mostly 2500-2600 rpm

Normal flying style: large fast forward aerobatics, flips, inverted hover, fig. 8s low to ground.
This test only hover however, due to small yard.

Conclusion: I think I will have fun with both 6s & 5s packs sharing 1, 14T pinion.

With 14t I got:
6S- Max headspeed of 2800 on fresh pack. Can set ST1 lower to get lower headspeed with 6s if desired. The 6s pack barely fits under the top of the canopy, with my holes moved back & down ~1/4"-3/8". I think the bottom of the canopy is ussually above the slot.

5S headspeed around 2250, for gentler flying. Probably use ST2 on 100% flat throttle curve for all 5s flying.

BALANCE: Both batts seem to balance Perfectly to me; 9650 tail servo (same wt as 9257); also have elogger up w/ batt (minor wt.)


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Last edited by rob-atl; 01-20-2008 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:07 PM   #8
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I liked the 2500 Evolite 6S pack 14t pinion. Seemed like a well rounded combo for performance. Heli balanced really nice, batteries were just warm after 4.5 - 5 minutes of sport/mild 3D flying.
Thanks Bob for letting me try out those packs. Will probably buy some EVOlites this week.

Rob
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:10 PM   #9
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Rob, glad you enjoyed trying several different packs of mine today man! I too feel the 6S Evolites are the best performance to weight! My favorites right now

Bob
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:37 PM   #10
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1) Post what you have used for batteries. List pack type, C rating, and Ma capacity.
- KongPower 6S 2200 25C packs (two 3S packs wired in series)

2) Please also list the motor used, pinion, throttle curves, ESC settings, and if you can head speed.
- Stock Motor, 13 tooth pinion, 100-90-100 Idle 1 (2500 RPM), 100% throttle Idle 2 (2600RPM), Soft Start, NO Gov.

3) Please give flight time and MA used from the pack!
- 4:45 to 5:00 minutes of hard flying using 1600 to 1700mah.

4) Explain what your thoughts about that setup and your flying style.
- Balances perfectly, runs very cool. Light and Agile flights with respectable flight time. I do moderate 3D with good collective management. I do not bang the sticks constantly. I'm only seeing spikes of 45 to 50 amps on this setup. I could easily drop the pinion down to 12 tooth and get 6 minutes on 6 cell sacrificing some headspeed.

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Old 01-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #11
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NICE report Skippley! Thanks!
I am suprised at 2600 hs though... it should be much closer to 2700?

Bob
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:49 PM   #12
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Glad to add to the freak Bob
It's around 2700 for the first couple minutes. Could be the 22* temperature affecting the packs out in the cold? I will try the eagletree with a few of the other packs and see if others are stronger. I only tried it with one, and some others do seem to have more puch when I go from idle 1 to idle 2.
I was also wondering about trying High timing. Anyone try it?
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:54 PM   #13
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I tired high on a 430XL and a 600XL and it just made the motor hotter with no perceivable increase in power. Align told me high timing is for KV motors 1000 or below. When I had my Lepton with a Hyperion 3025-10 and Align 75 ESC, the motor ran rather hot but when I switched it to high timing it dropped like 20 degrees!

But no... i have not tired it on the 500L but based on past experience I bet you will just get a hotter motor.

bob
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
I tired high on a 430XL and a 600XL and it just made the motor hotter with no perceivable increase in power. Align told me high timing is for KV motors 1000 or below. When I had my Lepton with a Hyperion 3025-10 and Align 75 ESC, the motor ran rather hot but when I switched it to high timing it dropped like 20 degrees!

But no... i have not tired it on the 500L but based on past experience I bet you will just get a hotter motor.

bob
Bob-

I have my esc set to high timing, and it came down to about 120*F(motor) after a 4:10 spanking with EvoLite 2500 packs. Esc was about 85*-90*F. Packs were about 125-130*. Running 13T at 100% flat.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:22 PM   #15
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High timing on my heli also.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:24 PM   #16
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Interesting with the high timing. Did you guys eagletree it to see if it gave anymore power?
I guess if it warms up, I'll do a run with it in high to get the data.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:44 PM   #17
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1) Post what you have used for batteries. List pack type, C rating, and Ma capacity.

-Flightpower 5s 3700 Evo20 and Evo25

2) Please also list the motor used, pinion, throttle curves, ESC settings, and if you can head speed.

-Stock motor . 17t pinion Flat 85% curve , stock esc settings with Bec @ 5.5 , 2840 HS

3) Please give flight time and MA used from the pack!

5:30 , 2570-2600 back.

4) Explain what your thoughts about that setup and your flying style

Balances perfect , Power is good but want to try a different 5s motor like a Scorpion 1900 or Z20 1700.

epc2.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:20 AM   #18
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Has anyone tried A123 batteries in this heli yet ?

Bob
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAyward View Post
Has anyone tried A123 batteries in this heli yet ?

Bob
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:08 PM   #20
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Alright, did some more runs on 6S and they were all the same, or very similar to the original above.
Then, I did a run with timing set to high, it got me up to 1070 watts but also increased the amps(more hits of 45 amps) and the heat, which was expected.
Here is the Mid Timing Run:

and here is the High Timing Run:
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