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500 Class Electric Helicopters 500 Class Electric Helicopters manufactured by Align, Tarot, SYMA, Airhog, Chaos, HK and similar.


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Old 02-17-2008, 06:12 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
MORE RECENT PROOF Static Exists in the tail system Bob
Does anyone have the "guts" to try this setup, and then spray the belt with Graphite 33
(I know that Bob will not, for other and "personal" reasons (no offense))

I can't myself, because I have sprayed my belt already.

I have yet to read about anyone who had this problem with a belt sprayed with graphite 33.

Thanks, and keep up the good work.

Peter
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Old 02-17-2008, 06:59 AM   #42
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What about using something like this to prevent voltage drops, if that is indeed part of the
problem.

Spektrum Voltage Protector
Overview
Spektrum's new Voltage Protector prevents a DSM™ receiver's voltage from dropping below the proper operating level in lower voltage applications such as 4-cell 1/12 carpet racers. Installation is as simple as plugging it into an open channel slot on the receiver unit.

Key Features
  • For DSM system
  • Prevents voltage drops to receiver
  • Plugs into any open channel slot
That was developed for the early RC CAR setups, which run ONE servo.

That size cap stores about 0.059 watt seconds of power. Or at 5 volts and 1 amp, about 0.012 seconds. It seems that the systems causing stroubles (from various boards) are pulling in the 2 - 3 amp range, so you get about 0.006 - 0.006 seconds of power protection.

If your system is RIGHT on the edge, it migh thelp, but what you really need to do is fix your power supply system to prodvide no less than 3.5 volts ALL the time.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:16 AM   #43
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I cant try it as I have already lubed my belt too.... Not sure the personal reasons thing but no need to fly it to see if you have static. How many times does it have to be shown and then proved that ground everything solves it.

Lubing the belt is not a permanent fix in my mind!

Bob
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:18 AM   #44
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Interesting tests.... Not sure this shows static as 3.5 volts wont cause an arc. But what it does show is the ability for sub system to build a potential and allow noise.

Bob


Quote:
Originally Posted by Socal500 View Post
We just tested with a Fluke 196C. No images but here are the results. This is with the main blades off and spooling up at zero pitch.

Measurements on the CF Frame
Frame not grounded. 3.5 volts on the frame
Frame grounded at motor mount to ESC negative flatline on the frame.

Measurement on the tail boom
Frame not grounded. 2.3 volts generated at the boom
Frame grounded 2.3 volts generated at the boom
Frame / boom / tailshaft / front pulley all grounded was flatline

We did not spray the belt. I cannot say this was static, only that we got the 2.3 volts reading on the tail boom regardless of grounding frame or not. I also turned the rotor head by hand while measuring and without the blades on I could not get it spinning very fast but was able to reach 1 volt. Under conditions better for static build up I guess the readings on the tail could be higher.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:03 PM   #45
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The 3.5 is on the frame itself not grounded.

The 2.3 is on the tail boom alone with the frame grounded and not the tail or boom (isolated from the frame), which I think shows the belt, pulleys and boom are generating voltage. Also without any power, turning the head by hand generated 1 volt on the tail. This is all in conditions not ideal for static.

The little light probes being used do show the presence of voltage but depeding on which one you have and its range, you could be measuring minute levels of voltage. Are these measuring volts, mV, ???

Im not shooting down the testing with the probes because they definitely show no activity when idle and then activity when running. I would like to see results of one tested locally in the same climate and also know what range it is sensitive to.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:04 PM   #46
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Ok, my vids using "Static Guard" found at your local grocery store or Walmart. Done on both the 450 and the 500. While this is NOT a fix for the cause, it is helpful until a solution is found. I believe the Nylon Gears and the belt are both generating static charges throughout the heli, and the frame is storing this charge. Also see thread for other discussions.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=61706


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEr9ARJXwnY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCT6fcIh4Wc

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Old 02-17-2008, 01:15 PM   #47
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Excellent! And for those not being able to find "Static Care"?? Could be the same sintethic oil or silicone oils?? Did you do any test using oils??
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:21 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Excellent! And for those not being able to find "Static Care"?? Could be the same sintethic oil or silicone oils?? Did you do any test using oils??
"Static Guard" contains: Dimethyl Ditallow Ammonium Chloride whatever that is, I would have to get my old chemistry books out for that one.

I originally tried Silicone Spray, which did not eliminate the charge, but as you can see this has a dramatic effect.

It's interesting that after flight, I did not get a reading off of the gears, but I did get readings along the edge of the frames and the boom block.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:23 PM   #49
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To understand, with sylicon spray the dramatic effect you've spoken means that you didn't have problem in flight?? Everything was ok??
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:27 PM   #50
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I have only done two flights since treating the gear. Neither flight did I have a problem, but that doesn't mean it won't happen on the next one. Additionally, I have relocated the Rx to the bottom tray and the gyro to a Modified Rx tray made by RDLOHR. Much more sturdy than the stock one.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:07 PM   #51
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There really shouldnt be any static build up on the 450, it has a conductive boom.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:10 PM   #52
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The 500 Video is not working at the moment, I am having to upload it again. I don't know if they pulled it or what.

The whole point to testing the 450 was to show it's coming from the gears also
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:55 PM   #53
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Ok, the video is up and running again. I think it was pulled for review !
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:10 PM   #54
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Quote:
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There really shouldnt be any static build up on the 450, it has a conductive boom.
I hate to break it to ya, but you may be wrong. (sorry...I read your signature)

While the aluminum boom is metallic, that doesn't mean it's electrically conductive. I believe those tubes are anodized. If that's the case, then the boom is non-conductive and therefore isolated from the frame. I believe the boom block and bearing blocks are also anodized.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:24 AM   #55
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forjer,

The T450 CF SE V2 CF Tail boom is in fact conductive....it indeed has some "glaze" as ya'll refer to it.....so one just takes some sandpaper to it, so that when your metal tail case is connected, thru the tail boom, to your metal drive gear block...which in turn connects to the CF frame...there is a path of conductivity..which is about 180 ohms....

My testing has resulted in
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:19 AM   #56
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hi,

i'm quite new on this thread; just maiden yesterday my trex500 cf

I'm using a spare R700 rx PPM. everything is nice wired; but no static modification.

I went for some hovering and at 5meters, I just noticed interferences... weird !

I had this in my 450sev2 earlier... with the same rx. I presume that with my PCM rx there won't be any issues... can't wait to test it.

Otherwise, I'll go for a tail boom + ESC grounding modification.

Last but not least, can I use the align stock lub to lub the tail ? I also have this one from Robbe

http://www.modelisme-online.com/outi...ue4-p-442.html

Cédric
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:03 AM   #57
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Al boonm is conductive, the anodizing prevents an electrical connection between the boom and the tail case/boom blocks. Unless you remove the anodizing in spots to allow electrical contact.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:17 AM   #58
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Sorry should have been more clear, you will have to sand a few things to make the whole thing conductive.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:48 AM   #59
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Hi Pinecone

Just wondering if going PCM instead of PPM will make the thing more isolated ...
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Old 02-18-2008, 01:33 PM   #60
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Here is a video of static buildup on the gears just turning the head by hand. This device has a range of 50-1000 volts so this shows that I am able to generate at least 50 VAC at very low RPM. Using the same probe I spooled the heli up with the blades removed. Still get detection the gears but nothing on the tail or belt.. even touching them directly.

http://www.socalsurfs.com/trex500/static2.wmv
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