Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect
START  HERE


Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopters > Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room


Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room - Tips and how-To Videos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-12-2008, 01:09 PM   #21
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

Horn on the needle is down, servo horn up. Applying heat, the servo horn goes right, needle horn goes left making it richer. Is this mechanically correct?

EDIT: needle horns goes right.
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 01:17 PM   #22
Finless
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,199
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stanton, Ca. USA
Default

As temperature goes up you should be richening the needle. THis would turn it in a counter clockwise direction.

I cant tell you direction of even a bottom facing arm without more detail. What heli is this in as it will matter if the motors head is rear facing, front facing, or down ward facing? What motor is it?

Bob
__________________
"Don't Taco My Pack Dude!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 01:26 PM   #23
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

Its an OS50 on a Vibe. Bottom line (using your favorite phrase) when heat is applied to the sensor, the needle goes counter-clockwise. I think we are on the same page here already.
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 01:40 PM   #24
Finless
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,199
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stanton, Ca. USA
Default

Yep sounds like you have it working correctly!

I hope this was helpful and enjoy

Bob
__________________
"Don't Taco My Pack Dude!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 03:37 PM   #25
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

I got peace of mind. I think it is no exagerration to say that a mistake with this would be catastrophic. Thanks for the quick replies.
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 03:55 PM   #26
Finless
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,199
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stanton, Ca. USA
Default

Well yes it could be! In fact I made that exact mistake! I got a new canopy for the 700 and had to FLIP the arm on the needle valve. Now this made the needle go the wrong way! as temp increased, it made it leaner! OUCH!
Well I caught it in time! I was flying and notice I was getting lean and started getting premature detonation. That is you could hear the motor detonate before it should. It started making a barking sound (hard to explain unless you hear it yourself). There was clearly something wrong so I hit hold and landed ASAP. I rechecked and realized my mistake! Re-setup and was good to go.

So yes if you get the servo direction wrong then you could burn up an engine REAL FAST if you don't know your leaning out too much!

Bob
__________________
"Don't Taco My Pack Dude!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 04:11 PM   #27
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

What was your initial target temp? I am using the default at 105C. I haven't flown it yet the the auto mix on. Is this a good starting number?

I also had the notion that when the governor is active, it ignores your throttle curve. I am assuming it still DOES need it to control max and min throws on the throttle servo. Is this a correct assumption?
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2008, 05:06 PM   #28
Finless
Team Taco VP
 
Posts: 34,199
Thread Starter Thread Starter
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stanton, Ca. USA
Default

Yes start with that. It's working great for me! If you want even more power at the risk of possibly getting too lean kick it up to 115.

Bob
__________________
"Don't Taco My Pack Dude!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Finless is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 03:33 PM   #29
Lapplandicranger
Registered Users
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden / Gothenburg
Default

A quick question when mounting the Spektrum sensor, is the magnet supposed to be touching the engine or not?
Im about to mount the sensor to my newly bought Multigov Pro.
Lapplandicranger is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 06:53 AM   #30
dhoff002
Registered Users
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Default Futaba 3151

Will the futaba 3151 work okay with the multigov pro as a throttle servo on my new trex 600n?

Or should I invest in a better servo?

Thanks,

Dan
dhoff002 is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 08:23 AM   #31
TheBum
HF Support
 
Posts: 32,543
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: McKinney, TX, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhoff002 View Post
Will the futaba 3151 work okay with the multigov pro as a throttle servo on my new trex 600n?
It's been working fine for me since I built my 600N in February. I have a non-Pro Multigov, but it should work the same.
__________________
Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal)
HeliFreak Support
Compass Atom 500 (V-Bar), Compass 7HV (V-Bar), Stingray 500

Experience is something you obtain only after you need it.
I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people.
TheBum is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 09:38 AM   #32
Pinecone
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,336
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finless View Post
Where? I forget where Aerospire is located?



Agreed... but up until now trying many govs and never really using a rev limiter until the AR7100, the Rev limiter has worked better than any gov I have used, UP until using this multigov... I am going to have to try limiter mode on the MGP just for grins...

FYI the 65 low point for the V is relative to the heli setup too.. The center throttle mark is not always 1/2 power depending on the engine, pipe, tuning, etc! So I bet the 65 he is saying is using OS 50 hyper? For instance with the Align gov 65-70 works best on a 600 OS 50... On the 700 you need 80 for YS but about 70 for OS. On my 600 with the MPG I have 70 and it seems fine and probably close enough to 65. Haven't tried the MPG on a 90 with a YS yet.
Also I bet what pipe you use and tuning of it will effect power / RPM at specific carb locations so 65% on one might not be the same on another.
Anyway all I am saying is plugging in 65 for every heli is probably a good starting point but you might have to tweak depending on setup.

Bob
Honolulu. Go by the field on Kapaa Quarry Road (over the Pali Hgwy) on Sat or Sun afternoon, and he should be there. Darn, if you had been there LAST weekend, we would have hooked up there. I just just got back on Tuesday.


NO, the 65 is just a point to give a nice slope to the curve for the Gov. In Gov mode, the throttle curve ONLY is used by the gov for look forward, to anticipate the need for higher or lower throttle before it the RPM changes.

In LIMITER mode, yes, the throttle curve sets the max throttle for that point.

But in Gov mode, the MGP just needs to see a nice slope, but not too steep, to see the changes.

In fact, the MGP should work with a 100 - 0 - 100 curve, other than too steep a curve being an issue for some reason.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 04:42 PM   #33
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

Tried to use the auto fuel mixture. First flight at 105C target temp, landed too cool, servo looks like it reached full rich travel. So I made a few adjustments to have a richer setting with the same servo travel (perhaps this was a mistake). Flew 2nd flight and landed cool again, too cool according to some experienced nitro pilots at the field. So I bumped the target temp to 110C this time without making any adjustments on the servo. 3rd flight, way too hot. Lowered to 107C, 4th flight way too cold again. I ended up disabling the feature for now. Although I might add at 7 a.m. temperature was in the low 60s and increased to the higher 70s as the day progressed.

Any tips?
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 06:42 PM   #34
dxtarl
Registered Users
 
Posts: 138
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Trainer, PA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post
It's been working fine for me since I built my 600N in February. I have a non-Pro Multigov, but it should work the same.
What Voltage are you running it at?
dxtarl is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 07:18 PM   #35
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

6V

Edit: I think the question was not directed to me...:o
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 08:26 PM   #36
TheBum
HF Support
 
Posts: 32,543
 
My HF Map location
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: McKinney, TX, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, Universe
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbersoul View Post
6V

Edit: I think the question was not directed to me...:o
That's OK. My answer is the same: 6V.
__________________
Alan (just call me "Bum"; no need to be so formal)
HeliFreak Support
Compass Atom 500 (V-Bar), Compass 7HV (V-Bar), Stingray 500

Experience is something you obtain only after you need it.
I wouldn't mind social media so much if it didn't involve people.
TheBum is online now        Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2008, 08:14 AM   #37
Pinecone
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,336
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Default

When I engaged the mixture, I set 90C. After flight (not hard), the backplate was cold, and power was about the same as it had been, mayb ea bit less.

Set 100C and the backplate came down warm, but more power.

I think the backplate gets hot when the engine is running hotter (leaner) than it should. Cool backplate with good power is a GOOD thing.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 10:38 PM   #38
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

How do you recall max temp after a flight?
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2008, 07:18 AM   #39
Pinecone
Registered Users
 
Posts: 18,336
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Default

Without powering down the MGP, plug in the LCD display, then press the + Value button.
__________________
Terry
AMA#47402, IRCHA # 3395
Blade CP "Pro", Trex 450SE, PiccoZ, Quick of Japan EP8v2 EX, Hurricane 550, Hurricane 200, JR Vibe 50, Blade mCX, Bergen Intrepid Gasser, Pantera 50, Blade mSR, Novus CP
Pinecone is offline        Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2008, 11:29 AM   #40
rubbersoul
Registered Users
 
Posts: 662
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco
Default

Well, even after confirming with Finless about servo direction, it turned out that mine was reversed for 1 good reason. I did the blow dryer test incorrectly. Although it did richen the needle when it became hot, it did so even before reaching the target temp and I just assumed it was working correctly. Let me explain this and I hope it helps someone else new to this.

The proper way to test would be to temporarily set target temp at the MGP minimum of 70C. That way you don't have to wait too long before the mixture servo does something. Ok apply heat with blow dryer and at 43C, the mixture control will be activated and will center the servo. A little over 43C the servo will start to lean out the needle to reach the target temp. When the temperature reaches 70C, the servo should start richening the needle. This is the correct process to make sure the servo is going in the right direction.

When I did my first tests, the servo richened the needle and I said to myself, wow cool. But it did so without even reaching the target temp which is wrong. This was the reason why when I tried it last weekend, I couldn't make it to work because it was doing the reverse. Yesterday it flew great. I set my maximum lean position to 1 full turn (my normal setting after break-in) and maximum rich position at around 1 and 15 clicks or so. Center is about 1 and 5 clicks. I want the engine to have enough lubrication during warm up. Observing the servo on the ground, as soon as engine is hot enough to activate mixture control, it centers the servo and then after a few seconds goes to my leanest position. I did some temp inducing maneuvers and quickly brought the heli to a hover were I can see the mixture servo and sure enough it was at the rich position, for awhile though, because it started to lean out while I was hovering.

BTW, I am using CP15%.

I hope this helps other nitro newbies.
rubbersoul is offline        Reply With Quote
Reply




Unregistered
Go Back   HeliFreak > R/C Helicopters > Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room


Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room Finless Bob's Helifreak Tech Room - Tips and how-To Videos

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Copyright © 2004-2011 - William James - Helifreak.com